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|Passages: Donald Albury|
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|Page 1 of 1||Total of 20 messages|
|Posted by:||Jul 3rd 2009, 05:51:08 pm|
|Kimberly||Please be warned, though, that the book is graphic in its descriptions, and describes civilians acting in far less than civil ways, i.e cannibalism, torture and the like.|
|Posted by:||Jul 3rd 2009, 05:49:45 pm|
|Kimberly||Kimberly again. Spanish, if you read any complex history of the Japanese/German/Allies conflict, you will see that there is plenty of issue to go around. That book I referenced earlier is excellent, and shows where and when questionable tradeoffs were made on all sides. War rarely is about good vs. evil, but all about pragmatism.|
|Posted by:||Jul 3rd 2009, 05:09:58 pm|
|The spanish inquisition||"Leave the man rest in peace, yer hands are not so clean yourself."
I didn't bomb innocent civilians.
|Posted by:||Jul 2nd 2009, 09:29:10 pm|
|Tomm W.||Even Eisnehower's own memoirs noted that his socalled "response" was taken out of context at the time!! Between hte Japs and the Allies and Stalin and Churchill so much dirty was flying, kinda pat to sit back now and judge. When was the last time you went into combat Spanish? Leave the man rest in peace, yer hands are not so clean yourself.|
|Posted by:||Jul 2nd 2009, 08:58:34 pm|
|The spanish inquisition||http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debate_over_the_atomic_bombings_of_Hiroshima_and_Nagasaki
Now what are you gonna believe, the truth you were taught to believe? Or the truth coming from the horses mouth (in this case, Eisenhower, the general who became president, saying: "...the Japanese were ready to surrender and it wasn't necessary to hit them with that awful thing." )
Colin, your own source states:
Leahy admitted however, that there was "little prospect of obtaining unconditional surrender"
Unconditional surrender was primarily a battle cry meant "to concentrate the attention of public opinion upon the winning of the war."
(which seems to be working gloriously looking at this board)
My point is the US knew the japs won't surrender UNCONDITIONALLY. NO ONE WOULD.
And the Americans are more ruthless than the japs. Like I said, look at the innocents dead, the second, completely necessary bombing of nagasaki, and the quotes from the commanders, admitting dropping the bombs weren't necessary.
BTW slick, you're being lied to about 911.
|Posted by:||Jun 30th 2009, 12:53:28 pm|
|Kimberly||The conversation here piqued my curiousity, so I am reading the excellent "Flyboys" by James Bradley (author of "Flags of our Fathers," which was turned into an excellent film by Clint Eastwood a few years back). There are many sides to this story, all of them complex.
Donald Albury, rest in peace.
|Posted by:||Jun 27th 2009, 05:18:26 pm|
Mr. Albury was part of Briland history, given his antecedents. I think this is a perfect example of how we are knitted together and of how close the Bahamas and America have been. Nuff said.
|Posted by:||Jun 26th 2009, 04:56:58 pm|
|Kimberly||My fault. When Brilander Donald Albury passed away recently, I discovered that he had been the pilot at the controls of the WWII bomber that targeted Nagasaki ... and marvelled at the synchronicity of events.
The article was meant as a gentle reminder at how much we are all so very connected.
|Posted by:||Jun 26th 2009, 02:09:32 pm|
|Grouper||Is this the correct forum for this subject?
"The Briland Modem, sandy home of local news, information and analysis for Harbour Island and North Eleuthera, Bahamas,"
|Posted by:||Jun 26th 2009, 01:42:36 pm|
|Big Slick||Spanish, with the type of history books you have apparently been reading, Hitler would be classed as a decent guy.|
|Posted by:||Jun 25th 2009, 01:20:14 pm|
|Colin||Japan was urged repeatedly and publicly to surrender or suffer devastating consequences before the first bomb was dropped. Still the militarists in control of the government refused to surrender. Mobilization of the local population to resist the expected allied invasion continued. For an insightful and authoritative discussion of the debate within America about unconditional surrender and the attitudes of Japanese government leaders have a look at this: http://www-cgsc.army.mil/carl/resources/csi/Pearlman/pearlman.asp|
|Posted by:||Jun 25th 2009, 12:54:01 pm|
|Kimberly||Hi, Spanish. You might want to review your own sources of information and analysis, as the Japanese were anything but considered "defeated" back in 1945. Check out Nanking while you're at it. Or the ongoing alliance between imperialist Japan and nationalist Germany at the time.
War is messy, and reasons for war have evolved over the centuries, but I'm not inclined to second-guess a difficult military decision that was made back then, pre-Internet age of instant communications.
|Posted by:||Jun 24th 2009, 04:34:49 pm|
|The spanish inquisition||America was aiding Japans enemies. That's why the japs attacked pearl harbour.
The general consensus is Japan was defeated since early 1945. Long before the bombs.
"Gen. Hap Arnold asserted that conventional bombing could end the war. Adm. Ernest King believed a naval blockade alone would starve the Japanese into submission"
The japanese were in peace negotiations with russia, discussing their surrender. The US prolonged these negotiations, by demanding complete unconditional surrender.
General Eisenhowerhimself said "Japan was already defeated and that dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary."
""...the Japanese were prepared to negotiate all the way from February 1945...up to and before the time the atomic bombs were dropped; ...if such leads had been followed up, there would have been no occasion to drop the [atomic] bombs." -Herbert hoover.
My point is, the japs kamaikze'd a military post.
The US Nuked INNOCENT civilians.
Even if you still think the hiroshima bomb was justified, what about the nagaski bomb 3 days later?
Please take your brainwashed propaganda elsewhere.
|Posted by:||Jun 24th 2009, 08:57:32 am|
|Big Slick||Kimberly, they are past the stage of sleep, they are in a coma as usuall here on HI|
|Posted by:||Jun 24th 2009, 01:34:19 am|
|Big Slick||by the way f stop, take your liberal bullshit somehwere else. Where were you when they killed many innocent lives at pearl harbor?
|Posted by:||Jun 24th 2009, 01:31:18 am|
|Big Slick||I hope my cousin Donald rests in peace. He did his world and his country a great justice againt tyrants|
|Posted by:||Jun 18th 2009, 10:42:16 am|
|Grouper||f-stop...and what have you done for your country?
From the tone of your posting, you were not "thinking" at all. You may want to coonsider changing your login to
|Posted by:||Jun 17th 2009, 10:32:21 pm|
|Kimberly||NO one thinks that it's absolutely amazing that a 12th-generation Brilander was involved in one of the most significant military actions in history?????? Hello?????? Are you people asleep again?|
|Posted by:||Jun 16th 2009, 07:35:42 pm|
|f-stop||got me wondering... as good of a man as he was, if there ever would be a world trial for wiping out 75000 people in one swoop, he would have probably been first in line.|
|Posted by:||Jun 16th 2009, 05:28:20 pm|
|Fig Tree News Team||Don Albury, co-pilot in atomic bomb mission, dies at 88
BY ELINOR J. BRECHER
Charles Donald Albury, Miami-born co-pilot of the plane that dropped an atomic bomb on Nagasaki -- and a longtime Eastern Airlines captain after World War II -- died May 23 at an Orlando hospital. He was 88.
On Aug. 6, 1945, ''Don'' Albury flew a support plane -- the Great Artiste -- for the mission of another Miamian, Col. Paul Tibbets Jr., who unleashed the nuclear age with an A-bomb attack on the Japanese city of Hiroshima.
Three days later, Tibbets dispatched 1st Lt. Albury, co-pilot Maj. Charles Sweeney, an eight-man crew and a nuclear weapon called Fat Man aboard the B-29 Bockscar from the Mariana Islands. Two other planes accompanied them as they headed for Japan.
Though plagued with complications and missteps, the mission ultimately succeeded. At 11:02 a.m. Aug. 9, Albury's crew released the bulbous, 10,200-pound explosive over the city of Nagasaki, a secondary target, instantly killing an estimated 40,000 civilians.
Another 35,000 subsequently died from injuries and radiation sickness. Japan surrendered on Aug. 14.
For the rest of his life, Albury -- as did Tibbets, who died in 2007 -- said he felt no remorse, since the attacks averted what was certain to be a catastrophic U.S. invasion of Japan.
''My husband was a hero,'' said Roberta Albury, his wife of 65 years. ``He saved one million people. . . . He sure did do a lot of praying.''
Gwyneth Clarke-Bell, Albury's secretary at Eastern in the 1970s, said that Albury, a deeply religious man, ``felt he was doing his job, and that lives were saved on both sides. He'd want to be remembered as someone who was honorably serving his country.''
Even as congestive heart failure hobbled him recently and eventually took his life, ''he would shuffle out every morning and hang the American flag, then take it down at night,'' said Clarke-Bell, who remained close after Albury retired from Eastern in 1980.
In 1982, Albury told The Miami Herald that he deplored war but would do what he did again if someone attacked the United States.
''Everyone should be prepared to fight for liberty,'' he said. ``Our laws give us our freedom and I think that's worth fighting for.''
Don Albury was born in 1920 at his parents' home, now the site of the Miami Police Department. They'd come from the Bahamas, where his father ran a wholesale grocery. He had a sister and four brothers, one of whom died in the war. Albury survived the others.
After graduating from Miami High School -- the same class as Paul Tibbets' sister -- Albury enrolled at the University of Miami's engineering school. He enlisted in the wartime army before graduating.
In 1943, Albury was stationed at what's now Rickenbacker Air National Guard Base in Columbus, Ohio. There he met his future wife, Roberta Jean Mowery.
''There was a hotel where most everyone went out in the evening,'' she recalled. ``I was at a party for a boy who was going overseas. My [future] husband was at the next table.''
They married in March 1944 at Miami's Trinity Episcopal Cathedral, had daughter Sharon in 1945 and son Charles Donald Jr., known as Skip, in 1948.
Sharon, a one-time Miami-Dade County teacher, was killed by a drunk driver on New Year's Day 1993. She was 47. Skip is an oral surgeon in Nashville.
In 1943, Albury joined Tibbets' unit: the elite 509th Composite Group. They trained at White Sands, N.M. -- FBI agents tailing them 24/7. Not even the participants knew the scope of their project.
''We knew we were on something top secret, but when asked, we said we were testing glide bombs,'' Albury once told The Miami Herald. After the war, Albury told his wife that they'd also trained in Cuba.
Four years ago, Albury described his role in the events that changed the world to Time magazine:
``Aug. 6th, our job for the Hiroshima mission was to drop instrumentation to record the magnitude of the bomb blast and the radioactivity.
``When Tibbets dropped the bomb, we dropped our instruments and made our left turn. Then this bright light hit us. . . And the top of that mushroom cloud was the most terrifying but also the most beautiful thing you've ever seen in your life -- every color in the rainbow seemed to be coming out of it.
``Then it felt like someone came and slapped the airplane two or three times. And that was it.'' On Aug. 9, cloud cover played havoc with the mission, until the bombardier ``found a hole in the clouds . . . so we didn't need to use radar. The bomb hit the city on the other side of these big hills around Nagasaki. Most of the people lived on the side where the bomb didn't go. It saved a lot of civilian lives.
'As I was watching the same dust and mushroom cloud sweep over the city that I'd seen over Hiroshima, [Sgt. Raymond] Gallagher started shouting, `The bomb's going to hit the airplane. . .!' We felt about three strong shock waves. Even as we were moving away from it, we could still see the mushroom cloud.''
He added: ``I hope we never, ever have to use another one of these things.''
Three days later, he and Tibbets flew medical supplies into the devastated city. He told The Herald that ``there was almost complete destruction, but people were walking around. School children were planting potatoes. We saw dead horses, and I saw the shadow of a person burned into a bridge.''
The Japanese were cordial, he said. ``They didn't know who we were.''
After the war, Albury wrapped up his service in New Mexico then brought his family back to South Florida. They lived in Coral Gables, and Albury flew what his wife called Eastern's ``milk route along the coast.''
Later, he and colleague Dick Powers ran Eastern's Airbus A-300 training program, which included flight-simulator facilities in France.
''He never wrote his memoirs,'' Roberta Albury said. ``He was just that way. He never did public speaking because he had to work.''
He got plenty of ''nasty letters,'' as well as autographed-picture requests, she said.
At Eastern, his co-workers loved him, Clarke-Bell said, because ``he never said an unkind word.''
''He was an unassuming, gentle man'' who coached Little League, raised orchids, baked cakes and pies, and fished from a weekend home in Islamorada. ''Don was a believer -- a Christian,'' said Powers, now flying for Federal Express out of Memphis. He'll speak at Albury's funeral. ``If his life were defined by something, that would be what it was, not what he did in the war.''
Albury returned to Japan twice after the war, once for a BBC documentary called Rain of Ruin on the 50th anniversary of the A-bombings.
According to Clarke-Bell, a young Japanese woman approached him and thanked him for 'saving so many Japanese lives.' He was so moved by that.''
A graveside service will be held at 11:30 a.m. Saturday at Miami Memorial Park, 6200 SW 77th Ave.
For those interested in his genealogy these are his family roots:
Donald Albury's father, Joseph Leonard Albury, was born in Harbour Island. We can trace the Albury family ancestry back to 1775 ('Old Plant'Albury (great-great-great grandfather of Donald Albury), born in Harbour Island in 1775)), The direct line of descent is:
'Old Plant' Albury, b. Harbour Island, 1775, d. ?.
T. John Albury, b. Harbour Island, 1820, d. ?
James Henry Albury, b. Harbour Island; September 30, 1820, d. Harbour Island, December 31, 1905
Joseph Gilbert Albury, b. Harbour Island, March 18, 1849; d. Harbour Island, January 9, 1907
Joseph Leonard Albury, b.Harbour Island, October 24, 1877, d. Miami, Florida, c. 1947
C. Donald Albury, b. Miami, Florida, 1920, d. Orlando, Florida, May 23, 2009
Jim Lawlor, President Bahamas Historical Society
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